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  • #31
    About Ops killing: The fact is that when we allow ops killing, then killers just kill everything in sight, without reason or strategy. This has been tested over time, and its easy for returning players to come back and make general statements about how the game should be but you don't see nor understand what happens when cost to kill ops is lowered. Players just go berserk. I have tested time and again and saw myself get killed as a loner, in a small family and in a big family for no reason'

    This is the reason we impose a big turns amount to kill ops so that players that collect can play the round out, and realize some goals instead of just getting zeroed for no reason. Or a subbed player who spends here getting told how much to build/does not stick to player threats and gets killed because families who have monopolies want to control how much the smaller guy can make so that they are not a threat and never will be

    So its either listen or get killed or join them. This is not strategy and its not good game fairness either. it's called game bullying and whether you guys like it or not this is what has and will happen here if ops turns cost is brought lower. This singular change has kept the game going where others have closed down, as it allows smaller families and new players to at least learn, make some cash, learn how to handle money etc.

    If the bigger families and killers out there actually were not so trigger happy without reason, we would not be here. And trust me, I have tested this thoroughly. An all out killing game doesn't work for the business, at ALL. Not with the current killer mentality we got, of kill for no reason.

    I get your points that all these rules tied into strategies in the past, but the current base of players just dont give a shit anymore and have not for a long time about who and what they kill and this was so, a few years back already, its not a new thing. And its still happening. So with this mentality, it ties admin hands to impose rules that create longevity in the round for certain players

    Just to put it in a nutshell: this is what happens: A new player/returning/collector player logs into the game, buys a sub, builds to collect, gets killed on the 3rd day of the round, even if he is a loner and/or didn't affiliate to anyone, or is in a family that has no beef with anyone. He has nothing left to play for. I get that because we got fewer players the effect of killing is more rife and hurts the game and casual [someone who does not have hours to sit and loot] player, who, by the way forms a massive part of our income and keeps the site going for the active players. And you guys can try to tell me as much to the contrary as possible but i sit with the stats and figures and the rules mainly get made based on what is good for the business to survive and try to marry that with what players like.
    Game Admin

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    • #32
      So ^^^^^ that is our view and situation. I am open to discussion on this thread, and applaud that you guys have kept it objective, as we are committed to try to provide users a great game but we also run a business here and if any practice harms the business there wont be any game for anyone to play.
      Game Admin

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      • #33
        and family killing ranks dont work now.....we wont have a spread of competition for any collecting ranks because killers can damage collectors very easily and its not vice versa, especially if cost to kill ops is lowered. So reinstating that, the business might as well just say goodbye to anyone who plays casually and wants to collect.

        you guys need to come up with something in the community that can emulate what we had in the past where it was an unspoken thing to attack from day 5 only, that did work. I clearly remember,.....when i was a player, we went to war with Pissheads who had massive farming families out there and we hit them from day 1 without stop and eventually they all left the game because they couldn't cope with the early kills and the massive collecting farms were suddenly rendered useless. You cant do this from day 5, you lose DU's real fast and got to work to maximize you KP's
        Game Admin

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Storm View Post
          current base of players just dont give a shit anymore and have not for a long time about who and what they kill
          that's it in a nutshell. If the game is played as a role playing game, then killing happens when needed, not when bored (the difference between a hitman and a serial killer) and players can reasonably feel that if they don't step on somebody's toes in the game, they stand a decent chance of living to see EOR.

          This may be inevitable from the whole RPG aspect wearing off over time and everybody slowly de-evolving the game to a simple click to win numbers game that could have *any* theme. It may be related to the vast increase in turns available (remember we started off with 5 or 10 turns per 10 min, no subs, credits cost 4x what they do now, and MUCH less free credits from the ranks) and the simple fact that in the early days, it took till day 5 for a free player to even get to 100k dus, so you were less likely to use them frivolously.

          in the real world, war is bad for business, and a made man acting like somebody in-game going for killer rank would be put down by their own family to avoid blowback from his actions.

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          • #35
            Personally, I think kill points hurt the game more than help it. They create an incentive to hit without rhyme or reason. Sure you can still loot or collect after you've lost all DU's. Correct me if I'm wrong but, aren't there already awards for most DU's taken and most violent mafioso? Not criticizing you guys. Storm made a point of explaining pointless attacks but, the kill points seem like fuel to that fire to me.

            Again Storm and Opie I appreciate the explanations and, believe you try and do your best to make this game good for everyone. Opie, you owe me a drink neighbor.

            Buck_Nasty

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            • #36
              Storm, really appreciate your thoughts on this as you've certainly seen and tested this more than any of us backseat internet gaming operators. If killing without reason is a significant issue, what are your thoughts on kill points and their contribution to the issue?

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              • #37
                Kill points dont hurt the game, players do inadvertently because the game population is small. First and foremost when there is all out killing of everything from day 1, round start, then no one wants to play 'cos there is nothing to play for. The way current kill points work is that you can only steal max 5% total of a players KP's per hour, and the KP's build according to the number of du's they got and the length of time a player can keep them

                so common sense says that if you wait longer than a few days...., and allow someone to build they will gather more KP's over a few days than just hitting them in the first hours or first 2-3 days of the game. However player and human reaction to this is the same to when we had kill points based on how many du's you killed, it didnt slow down killing everything just stayed the same even when KP's were earned via the amount of DU's you killed.

                The real problem here goes way back and I was there to see it happen....again i will refer to the war against Pissheads, this was when it started, when rules changed and won credits didnt add to the JP and also expired....and killers realized that the huge farms of collectors were easily killed. this all contributed to the slow but eventual demise of the super families like Omerta and Pissheads. hordes of casual players left the game, especially, 80% of the game population was made up of collectors who used to send up to their respective banks in the hope for a rank spot or 2 at last day of round for one of their nominated family members.

                hardcore players used to call them rank whores cos they didnt do much in the round except whinge for ranks....but their role was very important to the game and the business, these were casual players who could log in 2-3 times a day only for a short time but feel like they were part of a larger community and they did spend on subs...which kept the business aspect of the game ticking over.

                Good players dont need a lot of turns to make a difference but when they do get loads of creds they are devastatingly good against even the biggest of spenders and biggest of unions....

                Without those huge collect farms that formed a buffer between killers and collectors, the game was soon stripped down to skilled players only, who came from looting, or killing background, and also it helped if you had skill with banking and being able to handle large amounts of cash.

                we need new players also...this is very important...

                the issue with TMB is that it caters for a variety of players and when one type has more hold over the other the game goes out of whack and we got to make rules to bring it back into balance. the fact is that its tough for new players to get into the game cos its an old platform and when they do they just get fucked up real fast even by experienced players who dont take time or have time to teach noobs

                there are a couple out there now like Bishop, Eck, and a few more that are taking time to teach new players but we need much more of this happening. we need our community now to nurture noobs, to try to come up with some form of solution that makes this game great to play, instead of the attitude of just killing for no reason, its treated like a FPS game now...and most of all, we need new players, we need families to help to get new players into the fold, and teach noobs.

                If anyone is interested i have a program going and have a few great players helping out on it , we just started it recently and it is looking fucking good....we got to start from the ground up and try to nurture new players and try to work out how we can find solutions to provide more things to do for players that is interesting and fun./

                please guys feel free to hit me up also in my inbox with ideas, and also i will be doing some polls soon to get some idea of what players we got now, and there will be some questions about your habits etc to help us to understand how we can move forward.
                Game Admin

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                • #38
                  I view the concept of kill points growing in value similar to the sexbots on this game reloading on cash. In theory, yes you could wait until reload and loot more per hit. That's not how it works though. If a looter or "killer" has the opportunity to loot cash or kp's they're going to take it immediately to prevent someone else from doing it. That's not going to change.

                  Unfortunately, in my opinion, the concept of looting kp's hinders the game from growing. I don't know how to view kp's other than a reason to encourage less structure and significantly more random hits early in game play. Neither of which assist in growing this game.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by SexualChocolate View Post
                    I view the concept of kill points growing in value similar to the sexbots on this game reloading on cash. In theory, yes you could wait until reload and loot more per hit. That's not how it works though. If a looter or "killer" has the opportunity to loot cash or kp's they're going to take it immediately to prevent someone else from doing it. That's not going to change.

                    Unfortunately, in my opinion, the concept of looting kp's hinders the game from growing. I don't know how to view kp's other than a reason to encourage less structure and significantly more random hits early in game play. Neither of which assist in growing this game.
                    yah that part i do agree with, its a band aid though [KP's from BOTS and in general], so rest assured its not the way we want to head with killing. but its a big code change so until we got something solid, we wont proceed
                    Game Admin

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                    • #40
                      I might be interested in helping a couple of noobs Storm. If they type with their fists though. I can only teach so much.

                      Buck_Nasty

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by hammer View Post
                        Opie, you owe me a drink neighbor.

                        Buck_Nasty
                        we should tear up Broad Ripple some time soon.

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                        • #42
                          Thanks for your input Storm . I agree with the ops killing with pretty much everything you said.

                          But with the family killing I still think if a person has to decide if they bank the kills or take them personally it will make a difference in the game. If a family hits for no good reason then the other families will out kill them and get rewards for killing and become stronger.

                          Ie they will lose their dus killing for no kill points if they do it early on in the round. You would definitely have to think about how you approached the round and who the targets were and what timing to hit. Strategy is what is missing in the game right now. I used to have to feather my way through a round and pretty much know what to do and foresee what was happening.

                          Maybe you havent noticed but now we build and kill our main target competition right out of the gate. It is one dimensional with dollars being the top of the totem pole. It is not too difficult to figure out what to do with the game as it is.

                          I have my family kill medals as you know so it isnt the medals I am after.

                          Family killing medals .. You have to family bank kills. When the kills are banked your individual kills no longer exist.

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                          • #43
                            We could definitely do that Opie. The Hopcat has a pretty nice spread on draft

                            Originally posted by Opie View Post
                            we should tear up Broad Ripple some time soon.

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                            • #44
                              Ok when are we going to try it ?

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Ivan_The_Terrible View Post
                                Harry, I have to agree 100%. You put it in a nutshell that idiots could understand. Killing did attract a lot of people to the game, but TMB does cycle it seems like. So I'm sure killing will come around again, people just need to be patient.
                                most people in this game left due to game changes....especially the ones that created a zeroed (dead) game

                                which are the family killer ranks...if you want to build a game you need to get the players recruiting

                                when do they recruit? when numbers matter.....
                                It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled. - Mark Twain.

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